Old Warden

[Christopher Low]

Can someone let me know the full length of the grass runway 03/21 at Old Warden? The 2008 UK VFR Flight Guide states 628 metres, but does this include the area across the road with the white arrows? If not, what is the total length? I rather fancy trying to land my Flight1 Cessna Citation Mustang here, since it is such a lovely airfield 

[Norman Dean]

I don't quite see how the real world distances for LDA affect the landing of a vitual aeroplane on a virtual airfield, but according to Pooley's Guide the LDA is 628M and that does not include the extension beyond the road (which is not permitted to visiting aircraft). By rthe way, you need strict PPR from the Shuttleworth Collection to land there in any case.

Norman

[Christopher Low]

I should have separated the two sentences, Norman. The first one was a genuine request for information regarding the runway at Old Warden, and the second one was simply a comment about what I intend to do (it had no real relevance to the first sentence)  

[Rod Yallop]

Christopher,

This link will give you all relevant real world info for Old Warden. I don#t think you would want to visit here in a Citation though, I have landed here in a Piper Navajo some time ago but would be reluctant to attempt it in anything heavier.

http://www.shuttleworth.org/notes_for_pilots.asp

[Christopher Low]

That's the beauty of landing a  "virtual aeroplane on a virtual runway". If it goes wrong, I can still walk away without a scratch  

To be honest, this is simply a test to see if I can use the Mustang at Old Warden. Take offs are no problem at all using the extended runway 03 and a 50 per cent fuel load, but landings will undoubtedly be more difficult. I need to make sure that I clear the trees first!

The shortest runway that I have landed the Mustang on successfully to date is Bembridge on the Isle of Wight. That is 837 metres, but I assume that the brakes will be more effective on concrete?

[Christopher Low]

Well, I managed to land the Citation Mustang successfully on runway 03 at Old Warden. However, the descent angle after passing over the trees was a bit steep (I was informed by the flight computer  ), and I touched down in the area with the white arrows, which is technically before the runway threshold. Nevertheless, after completing the task, I have come to the decision that business jets don't usually land on grass runways, so I will avoid them in the future.

Further testing has resulted in me setting a lower limit of 2500 feet for asphalt/concrete runway landings in this jet, and I just managed to stop the plane before the end of runway 07 at Thruxton (2530 feet)....after a somewhat "bouncy" landing. That should mean that smooth landings will be fine 

[Christopher Low]

I "discovered" the spoilers on the Citation Mustang, and that allowed me to make a successful landing at Wycombe Airpark (2410 feet; 735 metres).

It's worth noting that not all of the runway lengths quoted in the VFR Flight Guide should be taken at face value when using FSX. The runway at Old Buckenham is apparently 800 metres long, but this includes a concrete starter extension of 160 metres. Since this extension is not part of the runway pavement in the VFR Airfields version, you only get 640 metres to work with!

[Christopher Low]

Well, it seems that the Citation Mustang's speed brake is very effective indeed. I have just landed the aircraft at Hinton-in-the-Hedges (700 metres), and stopped with plenty of room to spare!

EDIT: Successful landing at Bourn (635 metres) 

[Norman Dean]

That's fine ... er... have you tried to take off again? :>))

Norman

[Christopher Low]

Norman,

I can take off at Bourn in the Mustang with a 50 per cent fuel load. I wouldn't have much room to spare if I had to abort, but this is where flight simulation has the edge over the real world 

[Norman Dean]

Chris, you may not believe this, but I once saw a women try to take off a Cherokee 140, with three passengers from an 800M grass strip, and actually make it.

Norman

[Christopher Low]

The Piper Cherokee 140 looks like the kind of plane that should be able to take off from an 800 metre grass strip 

[Norman Dean]

Not with three up, Chris, it is very under powered. A 180 would do it with perhaps one or two passengers. I used to part own a 180 and we would never have used less than 1000M on Grass.

Norman

[Christopher Low]

I guess I had always assumed that those little planes could take off almost anywhere! Maybe that's why a handful take the easy route, and use the nice, big runways at Manchester 

[Norman Dean]

Calculating the minimum take off run needed is a very complex calculation. Taking off from a wet grass runway on a day with high temperature and high pressure needs up to 30% more runway than using an asphalt one. That's how a lot of GA pilots come to grief. Much better to use runways at EGCC!!

Norman